Keeping an authentic voice when AI can’t read the room

AI is experiencing mass adoption across industries, including hospitality. But it can’t replace the human touch guests crave.

In this episode of Hotel Moment, host Karen Stephens, CMO of Revinate, sits down with Dina Niekamp, SVP of Brand and Marketing at Aparium Hotel Group, a lifestyle hospitality company known for building hotels that feel deeply rooted in the neighborhoods around them. Dina explains why emotional connection, not just amenities, has become the new standard for luxury travel, and why she believes AI will never replace the most important skill in hospitality: reading the room.

Tune in to learn how unique hotels maintain authenticity to complement AI and deliver a rich guest experience.

Meet your host

Karen Stephens

As Chief Marketing Officer at Revinate, Karen is focused on driving long-term growth by building Revinate’s brand equity, product marketing, and customer acquisition strategies. Her deep connections with hospitality industry leaders play a key role in crafting strategic partnerships. Karen has more than 25 years of expertise in global hospitality technology and online distribution — including managing global accounts in travel and hospitality organizations such as Travelocity and lastminute.com

As the host of The Hotel Moment podcast, she interviews top players in the hospitality industry. Karen has been with Revinate for over 11 years, leading our global GTM teams. Her most recent transition was from Chief Revenue Officer, where she led the team in their highest booking quarter to date in Q4 2023.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Dina Niekamp: We have a philosophy called the fifth meatball at Aparium. The idea is you are empowered to bring the fifth meatball. Your menu has four meatballs as part of the serving and there are five guests. You don’t need to ask, you don’t need to overthink it. You need to bring them the little pleasures. Bring the fifth meatball and, like, read the room and get ahead of some of these things. That is truly the art of hospitality.

[00:00:26] Karen Stephens: Welcome to the Hotel Moment Podcast, presented by Revinate. I’m Karen Stephens, Chief Marketing Officer, joining you from sunny San Francisco, California.

[00:00:34] Dylan Cole: And I’m Dylan Cole, Managing Director of Revinate Europe, calling in from Amsterdam.

[00:00:38] Karen Stephens: This is the podcast where we explore how technology shapes every moment of the hotelier’s experience. And more importantly, how the right technology delivers real outcomes for hotel teams and guests alike.

[00:00:49] Dylan Cole: From revenue strategy and guest communication to operations and marketing, we sit down with the people transforming hospitality around the world.

[00:00:57] Karen Stephens: Depending on the conversation, sometimes it’ll just be me behind the mic.

[00:01:01] Dylan Cole: And sometimes it’ll be me, bringing a European perspective and stories from across the global hospitality industry.

[00:01:07] Karen Stephens: Whether you’re a hotelier, a tech enthusiast, or just curious about where hospitality is headed,

[00:01:14] Dylan Cole: You’re in the right place. Let’s get into it.

[00:01:16] Karen Stephens: Hello and welcome to the Hotel Moment Podcast. I am your host, Karen Stephens, the Chief Marketing Officer of Revinate. And today we’re excited to welcome Dina Niekamp, SVP of Brand and Marketing at Aparium Hotel Group, one of the most respected names in lifestyle hospitality. Aparium has built a reputation for creating hotels that feel deeply connected to their neighborhoods, combining design, community-driven experiences, strong food and beverage, and intentional storytelling. Under Dina’s leadership, Aparium continues to redefine what hospitality lifestyle can look like for both guests and owners. Today we’ll explore the future of experience-led hospitality, why emotional connection is becoming the new luxury, and how Aparium approaches storytelling and guest experience. So without further ado, Dina, welcome to the podcast.

[00:02:11] Dina Niekamp: Hi Karen, thank you so much for having me.

[00:02:13] Karen Stephens: Well, it is a pleasure to have you. So Aparium is a longtime customer of Revinate, and I would love to start by just giving our audience a little bit of an overview of the group itself. I know that we’ve got a lot of cool hotels, we’ve had some awards. So can you just give us kind of the 10,000-foot view of Aparium Hotel Group?

[00:02:22] Dina Niekamp: Yeah, absolutely. We are a lifestyle brand. We recently introduced sort of two tiers. We have the Aparium Collection, our original one-of-one custom imagined, designed, and programmed hotels throughout the US, and we also just introduced Aparium For, which is our answer to a growing lifestyle industry where large brands have acquired many lifestyle products and many management companies don’t know the original meaning and ethos of lifestyle, and we’re bringing that solution to both parties.

[00:02:54] Karen Stephens: So how many hotels are in Aparium Hotel Group?

[00:02:57] Dina Niekamp: So currently operating today, we have eight hotels and we are working on about four to five really amazing projects coming down in the pipeline.

[00:03:08] Karen Stephens: So it’s a truly curated boutique hotel experience in really cool locations. So I want to jump right in because I have a ton of questions. So as you kind of alluded to, Aparium has been known for building hotels that feel deeply personal and culturally connected to the cities that they’re in. So I want to know what originally drew you into hospitality and what made you passionate about lifestyle and experience-driven hotels?

[00:03:32] Dina Niekamp: Yeah, so I’m actually second-generation hospitality. My father spent his entire career in hotel engineering. So I grew up around the industry and I definitely did not set out thinking that I’d end up in it. You know, went to school for business, marketing, communication, psychology. And I really wanted to go into advertising, but the job market and circumstance had other plans. I had a friend and a roommate who referred me to the Four Seasons, Chicago. And honestly, I had no idea what I was stepping into. I found a world-class environment. I found mentors that taught me fundamentals. And it’s just still how I do business today. So that’s really set the tone for how I’ve maneuvered through hospitality and just sort of have a mantra of collecting the lessons, collecting the memories and the connections, and letting go of the rest.

[00:04:23] Karen Stephens: It’s funny because I talk to a lot of folks who start their careers in hospitality and really never leave. I think once we get into this business, we love it. So we might move between brands and different job roles, but I haven’t ever met somebody who was kind of born into it, as you said, second-generation. So that’s interesting. You got pulled into it either way.

[00:04:47] Dina Niekamp: Yeah, exactly.

[00:04:49] Karen Stephens: So Aparium talks a lot about creating places people love rather than simply places people stay. So when you look at hospitality today, do you think that guests are searching for something emotionally different than they did 10 years ago? How has that shifted? In fact, you mentioned kind of at the beginning that the brands are always trying to get in on that secret sauce. So how do you think the buyers or the travelers have changed?

[00:05:05] Dina Niekamp: Yeah, absolutely. It’s such a good question. I think that in certain levels of hospitality, there was always this expectation of it’s so much more than the stay. It’s about the experience. But I think it caught the rest of the industry off guard, this whole thought of experience and lifestyle programming and other reasons to stay besides needing a hotel room. So I think early adopters were the luxury market where it was so much more than the investment in the room. It was knowing your family, knowing your special events, celebrating with you. And then I think more recently you had Airbnb and Vrbo and different ways to book that really shook the hospitality industry. So I think that there’s a real and lasting appetite for hotels specifically to be more than a place to sleep or a bar or a restaurant to go to, but that genuine service paired with memorable experiences. That’s certainly what we’ve seen it adapt into over the last ten years. And the best brands are doing that really well and going with the flow and figuring out there is a way to build it in and it doesn’t need to be nickel-and-diming. But I think there were early adopters and then I think we were kind of shook as an industry, and what’s really cool about what Aparium was founded on was always so much more than a bar, so much more than a hotel. It’s an experience. And so I think various levels of hospitality have caught on.

[00:06:29] Karen Stephens: Yeah, it’s funny. When you think about how much we used to think about Airbnb and, you know, is everything gonna shift? Is everybody gonna be doing Airbnb instead of hotels? And I think you hit it on the head when people start to identify that a hotel is more than just a room, that it’s everything around it. So you alluded to it there, but as a marketer, how do you bottle that up and make sure that the guests that are coming to your hotel understand what they’re getting? And how do you kind of market that experience online?

[00:06:57] Dina Niekamp: Yeah, no, it’s so good. I mean, for me, my personal philosophy and our brand philosophy is storytelling. Those of us in lifestyle are really lucky to be content-driven brands and it’s about the story first. And so really one example is what we did this year is our sort of portfolio-wide North Star. It’s called “As Told By” and it’s really highlighting the voices and the experiences that have built each of our individual properties. So these are key collaborators in each city. They’re not our colleagues, they’re people with their own small businesses—partners, collaborators, purveyors—and they’re showing through their lens sort of what’s important to them in that city and how our hotels tie into that. So when you think about plussing up on just amenities, rooms, and location, that emotional connection and resonance is where we’re leaning in because we’re so lucky to know some of the coolest people and partners. And that’s what people are seeking when they travel. And so just giving them a platform, a voice, kind of turning all of our marketing channels on highlighting them, and then flipping back to our seasonal sales and what we need to do for the business has been our sort of guide this year and I see it for many years to come. Just leaning into the storytelling side of who we are. That’s something that AI and other tools can’t give you: real human connection. And so that’s where we’re putting the spotlight.

[00:08:21] Karen Stephens: That’s right. And I think it’s really interesting that you go outside of the hotel itself to kind of get people that are culturally influential or just give a real spirit of the towns that you’re in because you’re in some great locations. You’re in Seattle. You’re in… Is it Fargo? Are you in North Dakota?

[00:08:38] Dina Niekamp: We’re in Fargo. We’re in Kansas City, Detroit, Alexandria, Virginia, and so many more. And so they’re really kind of pocket cities that have a lot of culture, have a lot of really amazing collaborators there. And so it’s a truly unique spin on a city that maybe you’re there for leisure or business, but that you want to lean into and truly enjoy.

[00:09:01] Karen Stephens: I love that. And the thing is too that these hotels are really beautiful luxury experiences in addition to being in these cool places. So when you hear more and more about luxury travelers who want to feel seen and understood rather than simply impressed, which is I think what we’re talking about, right? It’s like they want to immerse themselves. Why do you think hospitality shifted from focusing on the physical amenities to those emotional outcomes, to that storytelling?

[00:09:24] Dina Niekamp: Yeah, it’s such a good question. I think the whole of an industry has shifted, but I think again there were early adopters that did it really well. I think a lot of the luxury brands where I started in my early career, it was always about thinking of a 100-year brand, not a 10-year brand. So generationally, what can we do to intrigue our future travelers, our younger travelers, our current travelers, and how is that going to translate over time? And so it’s sort of a timeless philosophy in that you wanna be part of the now. You wanna be part of the experiences and the culture that’s happening and to have that offering outside of your traditional amenities for travelers to feel seen and understood or to try something new is certainly, I don’t think a new philosophy, but one that I think started in luxury and is truly being capitalized by the best of the lifestyle brands that just keep that human connection alive.

[00:10:20] Karen Stephens: Yeah. You know, you mentioned AI there, and I know we’ve talked about it to death. I’m again kind of getting sick or tired of talking about AI, but when you think about… you mentioned Four Seasons where you started. So I think Four Seasons has absolutely from the beginning known how to really deliver guest experience. And I mean you worked there, I just know from the outside, but they really had a good beat on every single guest, what they really liked, from the beginning of the stay through the end, keeping all those notes and capturing it. Now with AI and some of the systems that run in the back end, you can enable frontline staff to provide a similar level, right? So I feel like… and you correct me if I’m wrong, you’re the expert here, but it used to be that it was kind of those luxury brands that had the resources and kind of the staff and the process in place that could deliver that experience. And now, even as a smaller hotel company, you can get that right if you have the right technology in place. Do you think that that’s a fair statement?

[00:11:13] Dina Niekamp: Yeah, it’s so true. I mean, for anybody to deny that AI is so important today and in marketing and in experience, anything that’s service-based would be ignoring a massive trend in front of us. So certainly there are great solutions: guest history, guest preferences, special dates, how you’re gonna prep. And what’s most important or how I like to think about it is what makes it an ease for the guest. If it helps in the pre-planning process—and we all know that that’s so stressful, sometimes your vacation ends up being more work than it was worth, and by the time you’re there, you’re super stressed—so if we can ease pain points, that’s incredible and that’s where we’re leaning into. Where I think it lacks, at least today, is again that personalization. You can read an email newsletter and know that it was generated by AI and you start to learn the cadence of the voice. On my team, we’re really passionate about what we write and how we write it and making sure we’re leaning on AI tools, maybe for corrections or need, but staying authentic and especially keeping our authentic voice. I think the other thing AI can’t do is read the room. And so where it’s great is pre-arrival and post-departure and maybe some pressure points along the way. But I think the magic and the art of hospitality, and I don’t think we’ll ever get there with AI, is meeting that person at check-in and realizing they’re really flustered. They’ve had a really stressful experience, and trying to think about what could I offer, do, upgrade, adjust, plan for them that would help ease their pain points. Travel used to be glamorous. People used to dress up to get on an airplane and it’s just not the case anymore. And so whether it’s our amazing colleagues at the check-in desk or that server… We have a philosophy called the fifth meatball at Aparium. The idea is you are empowered to bring the fifth meatball. Your menu has four meatballs as part of the serving, and there are five guests. You don’t need to ask. You don’t need to overthink it. You need to bring them the little pleasures. Bring the fifth meatball. And like read the room and get ahead of some of these things. That is truly the art of hospitality. And I don’t think while AI is incredible and we certainly use it and lean into it, we have to remember this is a human business. And wherever we can add back those human elements, that’s going to be a win for us, for our clientele. They’re going to remember that warmth, that feeling, the original ethos of hospitality.

[00:13:42] Karen Stephens: I think that’s my new favorite quote is “AI can’t read the room.” And you’re absolutely right. And people go to hotels to interact with humans that can read the room.

[00:13:51] Dina Niekamp: So true. Whether they want it or not, because I know sometimes when I’m traveling I just want to put my baseball hat on and like get through. You don’t realize… you know, we saw that a lot during COVID. Without that human connection, you saw over time what it did to your mental state. And that’s the art of hospitality.

[00:14:08] Karen Stephens: That’s absolutely correct. So Aparium hotels are also known for their strong food, beverage, and cultural programming. Why do you think that restaurants, bars, and social spaces have become such an important part of lifestyle hospitality today?

[00:14:21] Dina Niekamp: Yeah, I think this is great. And again, like kudos to Mario Tricoci, our founder, and sort of the original founders and their philosophy. They actually came up with a pillar and a made-up word called translocal. And the idea is that you could walk into any one of our bars, restaurants, common areas… you could be a transient guest, there for business, and you might be right next to a local. And so when you think about food, beverage, and cultural programming for us, they really go hand in hand. And it’s this philosophy of: that’s a really cool bar, that’s a really cool experience, that’s incredible live music, the lighting is right, the scent is right, this vibe is perfect, and it’s a place that you’re not only comfortable being that road warrior guest that just wants maybe a quick cocktail, as well as the local that lives in a great loft down the street that wants to go to a really smart bar and meet interesting people. And so with that sort of as one of our three company core pillars and sort of our North Star in all that we do, you can imagine how it shapes sort of the food and beverage experience. One of Mario’s partners, Michael Kitchen, always talks about the blue flame, and that is when you walk into one of our hotels—which we used to call restaurants and bars with hotel rooms on top, that philosophy is sort of changing—but you are drawn to this incredibly social experience, the hottest part of a flame. That’s our bar, that’s our incredible restaurant experience. And again, it’s not only about incredible food and beverage—fresh, farm-to-table, unique cocktails—but it’s about the entire ambiance that is created sort of around you and what sort of cultural pillars you can see or meet while you’re there.

[00:16:06] Karen Stephens: Yeah, you know, and I have to say that vibe really comes through looking at the branded websites, looking at all the different hotels. You can really feel that vibe. I was checking out the Seattle property in Pioneer Square and just the images on the website, I’m like, I want to go there. So kudos to your team for bringing that. You know, we talk about how do you get the storytelling, the emotion across so that people understand the product before they get there. And that really comes through as something that you want to be a part of.

[00:16:35] Dina Niekamp: Yeah, and just to add to that, because I think really well said and observed, the building of that vibe and experience happens years before the hotel opens. We have an incredible design and programming team that from project origin—and again that original one-of-one philosophy where we’re custom designing from the interior perspective, branding from these—like, there is not a strong Aparium brand by design. It is Populus Seattle that you mentioned. It is the Crossroads in Kansas City. And so this team gets in very early, sometimes two or so years out, and they get to know the community, the neighborhood, the competition, certainly what’s lacking where we could lean in. So from an interior design and original collaborator establishment down to some of the materials we use, to early entry by our food and beverage team and lifestyle team, we’re thinking about how we can resonate locally, how we can differentiate, and how we can sort of like honor that space. And it’s all truly unique one from the other, which is a really incredible brand approach.

[00:17:44] Karen Stephens: It really is. And I think it really goes back to how bespoke and curated the collection is. So, you know, again, I think it became a trend to have kind of these boutique hotels and everybody, you know, the big boxes want to be able to replicate it and buy… It’s more than just a cool logo and slapping that on a hotel and having a wine hour or whatever. You know, it’s like when you talk to groups like yours that really… I mean, you know, a couple of years just to create that vibe and ambiance that carries through all the way. I mean, I highly encourage our listeners to check it out because it’s such a different, it’s such a cool experience right from the jump, from digital all the way through.

[00:18:32] Dina Niekamp: Yeah, thank you.

[00:18:34] Karen Stephens: Absolutely. So I want to shift gears a little bit. I want to talk about leadership in hospitality, and it’s evolving in a lot of ways today, especially across lifestyle and brand that we’ve talked about. But as a female leader in hospitality, how have you seen leadership culture change over the years?

[00:18:36] Dina Niekamp: Such a good question. I think the honest part about hospitality is that we’ve always had strong women in it. That part isn’t new. That part goes back centuries. That said, what positions they’re in today, where they’re sitting—and even the fact that they’re sitting and not maybe running through housekeeping—and whether their voices are helping shape strategy, I think that’s the biggest shift. That’s the most exciting shift. I don’t personally stop to think of myself as a female leader. I just think of myself as a leader. And unless the pink blazer gives it away, it might be things that other people notice before me. Because I just think there are so many men and women that have shaped me. And it’s just about being like a good person, being empathetic, certainly getting the job done and improving results, but remembering you’re all kind of human at the end of the day. So I try to model for the people around me, especially women earlier in their careers, the same lessons that I carried from the beginning. Again, collect the lessons and the memories—never forget those. I remember the biggest lessons every single day. Hospitality by nature builds a lot of relationships. I have some of the best friends and strongest relationships that came from my working years even before, you know, I was in a leadership role—and stay out of the rest. And what I mean by the rest is just the drama, the added layers that don’t serve you, and everything in between. Just stay focused on the goal. And as a leader, treat people with as much respect as you’re given and remember sort of the Golden Rule as you continue to grow.

[00:20:08] Karen Stephens: I think that’s fantastic advice. And I think that’s prevalent at any company. But what you said there I think is really poignant because you can get wrapped around the axle trying to navigate all this stuff, or you can just do what you do best. And I don’t know if you have any further advice on that point.

[00:20:21] Dina Niekamp: I think it’s such a good point. And it is funny. It doesn’t matter what business you’re in—if you’re in the hotel, if you’re offering marketing services exterior, or if you’re in financial services—there’s drama if you want to pick it up anywhere. It’s just not going to serve you. And I think just knowing who you are and how you come off in a meeting and how you sound to people, those are the most important tools. I just made my team go through it again—I’m sure they’re exhausted by it—but where you actually record yourself answering tough questions and then you watch it back. And by human nature, there’s nothing more uncomfortable than watching yourself back. I’m sure when this podcast comes out, I’ll be like, oh, you know, even though you might think it’s great, I’ll be like, oh, that was a tough one. But that’s very humbling and that’s how you learn. And just keeping your eyes on the prize and enjoy your life outside of work, too. I mean, it’s so easy to let it consume you, and if you’re not busy, if you don’t have a lot of other things taking your energy, it’s so easy to go down the rabbit hole and just resist. You’ll have a much happier life if you just check out and stay out of all the side business when you leave.

[00:21:26] Karen Stephens: That’s right. I love that. You know what I do is I watch a lot of Bravo. That’s where I get my drama.

[00:21:31] Dina Niekamp: Sometimes that makes my blood pressure go up. Sometimes I have to turn off the Bravo. I have noticed that.

[00:21:38] Karen Stephens: People are like, “You watch Bravo?” I’m like, yeah. I like to have my drama like questioned over there and then I just live my life over here. You gotta do what works for you, right? So okay. So a final question for you. Another piece of advice here. So if a hotelier is listening to this episode and they want to start to create more emotionally connected guest experiences, what’s the first thing you think that they should focus on?

[00:21:58] Dina Niekamp: Yeah, so important. I think start with your people. So especially in hotels. Sitting in the seat of HQ, it sometimes can feel frustrating. Like, I built this brand and it’s not articulated well or why isn’t it resonating? Like, it was such an emotionally driven brand. You have to start with your people, and I mean like the people on the front line—do they know what the brand is? And for us, it’s a different brand each time. And so do you know your custom brand? And I don’t mean just like the branding or the tagline, but how was it built? It was built for this community, by this community. Do you understand the story behind it? And then do you understand the purpose of what we’re doing in hospitality, which again is building these experiences? And so I always say start with the people because if they don’t buy into what we’re doing here, that is not going to resonate to the customer—both in their elevator pitch of how do I articulate, like, tell me about this hotel, and again, kind of like reading the room and what we are in service of, which is in creating these incredible, pain-free as possible experiences for travelers. So that’s starting point one. And then I would say get started with your community early, before you think you need to. I told you about our amazing programming and design team. They’re in there a couple of years before any of the operations team, building relationships, researching, realizing and pointing out what’s cool. And again, that’s local makers, artists, chefs, cultural voices. That’s built into the foundation of each one of our hotels. And I think get your people excited, get your community excited and partnered with you before they partner with somebody else. And then the last thing, which I think again we do really well, is just resist the temptation to replicate. What works in one city won’t work in another. And guests can feel the difference between a hotel that belongs to its place and one that was dropped into it. And again, I think as we scale this business in Aparium, that’s exactly our point with a platform like Aparium For, where we can partner with a soft brand and still bring that lifestyle, ethos, pulse, vibe, and community, and sort of bring the best of both worlds—the scale of a larger brand and what we think is really emotional resonance of connecting with your community and vibe.

[00:24:19] Karen Stephens: Wow, that is so cool. Dina, it’s been a real pleasure. Thank you for joining me today.

[00:24:23] Dina Niekamp: Thank you for having me, Karen. So nice to chat with you.

[00:24:28] Outro: Thank you for joining us on this episode of Hotel Moment by Revinate. Our community of hoteliers is growing every week, and each guest we speak to is tackling industry challenges with the innovation and flexibility that our industry demands. If you enjoyed today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review. And if you’re listening on YouTube, please like the video and subscribe for more content. For more information, head to revinate.com/hotelmomentpodcast. Until next time, keep innovating.

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