Is hotel marketing ready for its next evolution?

Hotels have more guest data than ever. But data sitting in a system doesn’t drive revenue. In this episode of Hotel Moment, Karen Stephens sits down with Dylan Cole, Managing Director EMEA at Revinate, to explore the shift from CRM and CDP to real-time data activation.

Karen and Dylan unpack how connecting PMS, spa, dining, and stay history can turn fragmented data into smarter guest journeys, more repeat direct bookings, and fewer costly OTA commissions. The goal? Stop paying to reacquire guests you already know.

They also dive into how Revinate Pathways and Revinate Chat put that data into action across email, SMS, WhatsApp, voice, and AI-powered conversations. Because the next evolution of hotel marketing isn’t about collecting more data. It’s about making the data you have work harder.

Meet your hosts

Karen Stephens

As Chief Marketing Officer at Revinate, Karen is focused on driving long-term growth by building Revinate’s brand equity, product marketing, and customer acquisition strategies. Her deep connections with hospitality industry leaders play a key role in crafting strategic partnerships. Karen has more than 25 years of expertise in global hospitality technology and online distribution — including managing global accounts in travel and hospitality organizations such as Travelocity and lastminute.com

As the host of The Hotel Moment podcast, she interviews top players in the hospitality industry. Karen has been with Revinate for over 11 years, leading our global GTM teams. Her most recent transition was from Chief Revenue Officer, where she led the team in their highest booking quarter to date in Q4 2023.

Dylan Cole

Dylan began his career as a TV personality in South Korea. He then brought his love for travel and technology to Revinate where he played a vital part in establishing Revinate’s position in the US market, followed by the Asia Pacific region and now in Europe. Dylan is currently the Managing Director of Revinate Europe and is based in Amsterdam.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Dylan Cole: There’s plenty of data and plenty of guests that have visited you, but is that data usable?

[00:00:07] Karen Stephens: Welcome to the Hotel Moment Podcast presented by Revinate. I’m Karen Stephens, Chief Marketing Officer, joining you from sunny San Francisco, California.

[00:00:15] Dylan Cole: And I’m Dylan Cole, Managing Director of Revinate Europe, calling in from Amsterdam.

[00:00:19] Karen Stephens: This is the podcast where we explore how technology shapes every moment of the hotelier’s experience. And more importantly, how the right technology delivers real outcomes for hotel teams and guests alike.

[00:00:30] Dylan Cole: From revenue strategy and guest communication to operations and marketing, we sit down with the people transforming hospitality around the world.

[00:00:38] Karen Stephens: Depending on the conversation, sometimes it’ll just be me behind the mic.

[00:00:42] Dylan Cole: And sometimes it’ll be me, bringing a European perspective and stories from across the global hospitality industry.

[00:00:48] Karen Stephens: Whether you’re a hotelier, a tech enthusiast, or just curious about where hospitality is headed.

[00:00:55] Dylan Cole: You’re in the right place. Let’s get into it.

[00:00:57] Karen Stephens: Hello and welcome to the Hotel Moment Podcast. I’m your host, Karen Stephens, the Chief Marketing Officer of Revinate. And today we’ve got a special episode. We have passed 200 podcasts for Hotel Moment. So I have with me our illustrious host from EMEA. Welcome to the program, Dylan Cole.

[00:01:15] Dylan Cole: Illustrious. Ooh, nobody’s ever called me that before. And it’s also a big day. Yeah, 200 episodes. It feels like you just started this thing and then I got to join in, but it’s been a great ride and I think we’ve had a lot of wonderful guests over the years now that this has been going. To kick off the conversation today, one of the topics that’s come up, I would say almost every episode, has been guest data. And I think at this point we can say that hotels have more data than ever. And then the question is, are they actually getting enough value from it?

[00:01:48] Karen Stephens: Yeah, I think that that is absolutely the million-dollar question. And as AI evolves, I mean, every day we’re seeing more and more about how agentic bots are going to be making the booking and all the things that could happen with the guest data across the ecosystem. I think if anything, the hoteliers, they certainly have a lot of data. The question is, how do we unlock it? And where do we find it?

[00:02:10] Dylan Cole: Well, where do we find it? I mean, I think it’s still coming from the same places, right? So it’s coming from the PMS, the booking engines, the loyalty systems, F&B, spa, golf, and maybe other marketing systems. So it’s definitely there. And the challenge is definitely not collecting it anymore, but how do you now make sure that it’s useful and actionable for your hotel? And given the challenges that are going on, it’s really important that we’re doing that, right?

[00:02:37] Karen Stephens: Absolutely. I think the other thing that we’ve heard over and over again is that guest expectations are also changing. So hospitality is one sector, certainly e-commerce is another, and I think more and more people are used to providing their preferences and then being marketed to accordingly. So I think that extends as well to the hotel stay, when people expect brands to understand what their preferences are and deliver on those. And if it’s e-commerce, you know, you get the right pair of shoes in the mail. But if it’s your holiday, it’s like everything, right? And you’ve talked a lot about that, you know, your expectations on holiday with your family, etc.

[00:03:12] Dylan Cole: Yeah, so Karen, you’re right. I always kind of think about my own experiences because, yes, I work at Revinate, but I’m also a traveler, too, and I have my expectations. And I know what kind of data hotels have on their guests — I’m not blind to it, and I actually have a firsthand understanding of that. And then when I see that it’s not activated appropriately, knowing that they have this data, I think that’s interesting. And I know there’s a big missed opportunity that’s happening, maybe if I stay at a property where that happens. So maybe the next point here is, we’ve already said that hotels have this data. Let’s talk a little bit about the evolution of guest data. So the hotel industry is kind of going through a pretty big evolution at this point when it thinks about guest data, right? So the CRM was largely about managing guest relationships and keeping track of guest interactions. And then the CDP came in, and then the conversation is more about bringing data together, resolving identities, removing duplicates, and creating a more complete view of the guest. So those are kind of the steps we’ve seen so far.

[00:04:18] Karen Stephens: Yeah, absolutely. And I do want to take a step back. When we talk about CDP or customer data platform, this is kind of a now ubiquitous term, not only in hospitality, but also in technology. But, you know, I do want to say — and I know I work at Revinate, but I’m going to say it — we’ve been building a CDP and launched that across our entire customer base over the last couple of years. And ours is different than a lot of other players. So I think now it’s become a buzzword. You have a lot of what I like to call baby Revinates that like to claim that they have a CDP. But really the secret sauce there is your ability to do identity resolution across multiple data assets. So you mentioned some of them before: PMS, folio, you know, restaurant systems, golf systems, all of that, and synthesize it. So CDP was the next natural evolution, I think, for folks. Now, well, we’ve got to make sure everybody understands, you still have a CRM. It’s just embedded within that CDP. Is that how you think about it?

[00:05:13] Dylan Cole: Yeah, that is how I think about it. And the thing I’m very excited about is the next step, which is this data activation platform. So you can think about the evolution pretty simply. I just said this before, but maybe a nice recap for all the listeners is: so CRM, what is that? It is, who are my guests? That was the first step in evolution. Then you got CDP: what do I know about them? And now this third point that I just mentioned is the data activation platform, and it’s basically, how can I use that information? And this goes back to what I said before. I’m on vacation; hotels might have the data somewhere, I don’t know what step they are at — they have a CRM, a CDP, but a lot of times they don’t have that data activation platform yet because I’m not seeing those touchpoints. So data activation platform is the big buzzword of the day. And that is the next step on this evolution.

[00:06:02] Karen Stephens: Absolutely. And when we talk about data activation, we’re talking about reaching the guest at the right time in the guest journey on the right channel. So whereas before email — and email’s not dead, we love us some email — but we really know that when you talk about data activation, you’re talking about omnichannel. So it’s got to be something that hits, whether that’s SMS, WhatsApp, via email, or on a voice channel, that the data is activated at the right time in the right place.

[00:06:28] Dylan Cole: Yeah, and hospitality is a really interesting place, right? Because the guest relationship doesn’t just happen in that moment. There’s so many different touchpoints in a guest’s experience with you, right? So super unique to hospitality. You have the booking, the pre-arrival, the stay itself, post-stay, and eventually, and hopefully, the next booking. So yeah, hopefully if you’ve done it right, the next booking. But guest data can potentially inform what happens at each of those touchpoints if done the right way.

[00:06:57] Karen Stephens: Yeah, we should call out the next booking is probably the best booking, right? I mean, we all talk about how important it is to drive bookings direct, but just like sales acquisition across any channel, it’s always better to reacquire the same guests at a lower cost of sale and really have the opportunity to surprise and delight them even more than to have them come through a third-party channel on a second or third stay. That’s probably the most painful —

[00:07:21] Dylan Cole: Yeah, and that’s just like from the quantitative point of view, too. It’s like even just from a, you know, how hard hoteliers are working to create these wonderful experiences, and from a pride and just fulfillment point of view, if guests are coming back to your hotel, that’s what the whole thing’s about, isn’t it?

[00:07:36] Karen Stephens: Yeah, absolutely. So let’s talk a little bit about why this shift matters now. So we already talked about personalization is an expectation. That’s a given. And like we just said, customer acquisition is expensive. So you don’t mind paying the first time to get them in the door if you’re trying to get them from a market you don’t operate in necessarily. But after that, hotels really have an opportunity to get more value out of those guests and drive those bookings direct. And the other thing I want to mention, because I run a marketing team, is that marketing teams are stretched. They’re stretched in hospitality just like they are in technology, and they don’t necessarily need more tools. They need more efficient tools, right? So they need one platform that’s going to help them across all of that.

[00:08:16] Dylan Cole: Yeah, right. By the way, I love that point you just made: acquisition, it’s fine to pay the first time. I always think about this person who referenced that their little hotel here in the Netherlands was getting guests from Japan to visit them, and you know, they were paying 20% to the OTAs to get that. That’s great. You would never get that at that price. But the shame is when it continues to happen over and over and over again. So the industry, though, has moved from, you know, kind of to this point: these guests come in the door, whether it be from Japan or anywhere else, and they bring data with them. That’s great. And we went from having data that was scarce to now a different problem, which is there’s plenty of data and plenty of guests that have visited you, but is that data usable? So hotels have a lot of information, and I guess the point now is the opportunity is: how do we operationalize that? What do you think?

[00:09:09] Karen Stephens: Well, I think that’s a great question, Dylan, because we do have some exciting news coming.

[00:09:14] Dylan Cole: Do I get to be the one that says it?

[00:09:16] Karen Stephens: You do it. You know what? As a sales leader, I think you should be the one. So what’s coming?

[00:09:21] Dylan Cole: Okay, it’s my lucky day. So Pathways is Revinate’s new omnichannel marketing automation platform. And of course, as always with Revinate products, it’s built specifically for hotels. But the bigger story isn’t simply adding another marketing channel or just another automation tool. The thing is, it’s about using guest data and behavior to determine what happens next.

[00:09:43] Karen Stephens: Yeah, absolutely. So let’s talk a little bit about — so we talked about kind of all of the signals you’re picking up throughout the guest journey from the booking behavior. And by booking behavior, I mean if you see guests that always come back on their anniversary and you know what that booking window is, being able to target them with the right message when you know that window is coming. And we’ve been doing this for a while, right, with our Revinate Marketing application. But now with Pathways, we can really identify, well, what’s the best way to communicate with them? Because I think it is safe to say, depending on who you are, you might prefer a text message. You might never look at an email anymore. So how do we get the booking behavior? How do we understand when you like to stay, how you like to engage, and most importantly, your preferences? So Dylan, I know you have a beautiful son, you travel with your wife — that is your jam. So you’re looking for something specific. I don’t have any kids, I like me a spa. You know, so people have to know the difference.

[00:10:38] Dylan Cole: Hotels have had scarcity with their data previously and now we’re talking about the data activation platform. Like I’m going to give a really good example. Now our customers with our products can have their PMS data and their spa data tied together, right? That might be an example of how a customer might be configured with us. The guest books a repeat stay, right? The hotel knows that historically this guest has used the spa. So rather than treating this guest like the same as anybody else, you know, in the past might have sent some just generic pre-arrival message or different messaging, the hotel knows exactly who this is. They know it’s a spa user. They know that it’s somebody that enjoys that. So they can map out a specific journey that speaks to that guest, that makes them feel special, and of course ends up in more revenue for the property as well.

[00:11:27] Karen Stephens: Yeah, I love that you hit on building out a journey because there’s the guest journey and then there’s also what we would call kind of the digital marketing journey. And I think that that’s my favorite thing about Pathways is that you do have the ability — we talked a little bit about marketing teams being stretched — they don’t have to go to three platforms to make sure that the communication is happening with a guest on the preferred channel. And most importantly, they don’t have to stitch that data together across three platforms on the back end. So you can actually build that journey or pathway within the system to make sure that we’re getting the right cadence of communication. And then the minute that the guest books, that digital journey or pathway stops, so that we stop communicating for that piece. And here in a little bit we’ll talk about what happens once the booking is made and how we can continue that conversation on property. But I think that having this kind of tool is really cool and really robust and definitely the next evolution.

[00:12:21] Dylan Cole: If you don’t mind me sharing, like one of my favorite things about this evolution, and something that I’ve just witnessed with, let’s be honest, Revinate’s platform before and others that I’ve seen in the industry, is that the focus was always about building the individual campaign or that individual touchpoint. That’s kind of how you approach this marketing effort you would do, right? But it didn’t let you map out and see what a full journey might look like for a specific guest type or specific segment. But now when you engage with Pathways, you actually look at it as this overarching, “What does this full journey look like for this guest type?” And those campaigns are just touchpoints now along that pathway. It’s a much more intuitive way for a property or a group to build out journeys for their special guests or the different types of visitors they have. I’m really excited about it. It’s very unique.

[00:13:12] Karen Stephens: It’s very, very cool. So let’s talk a little bit about why the hospitality context matters. So having a marketing automation platform is not new. You know, it exists out in the world. It’s kind of like we were talking about with CDPs before. So there are many marketing automation platforms. But the interesting question is whether the technology understands the hotel-specific data. So I think that that’s where we really want to draw a distinction. Just like Revinate CDP, built for hospitality, Pathways is also unique to a hotel guest journey.

[00:13:43] Dylan Cole: 100%. And I think if you go out and you look at other industries, you’ll see similar technology. This is not something that we’ve pulled out of a hat and has never been made before. But like you said, it is specific to the hospitality industry. It’s a special business. There’s special terms. There’s special context. For example, hotel data has very unique data points, things like stay nights, room types, repeat visits, property preferences, booking and cancellation behavior. These are things that are special or unique to the hospitality business. And this makes a marketer’s job so much easier to just go in and build out their Pathways around familiar terms and things that are happening in their business, not trying to configure a tool meant for another industry or a generic tool to adhere to what is happening in hospitality.

[00:14:36] Karen Stephens: Yeah, that’s exactly right. That’s why the connection between the guest intelligence and the activation matters. And by guest intelligence, I mean everything you just listed off there — not only what they like, but how they book, when they book, what type of room they book, what kind of amenities they book. All of that matters when you talk about context, and then of course it’s got to be clean data. It’s got to be synthesized into a single profile, rich view of guest — what we call a rich guest data profile. So it’s valuable because it helps the hotel make the best decisions and market to the guest in the best way.

[00:15:07] Dylan Cole: Absolutely. And I guess one thing that I’ve been being asked a lot as we have been showing this to customers and potential new customers is, people are asking, “Is this a new product?” Everyone wants to know, is this a new product? Well, it’s not really a new product. It’s actually more of an evolution of our current Revinate platform. So it’s exciting for our current customers.

[00:15:30] Karen Stephens: Yeah, that’s important to note because it’s still feeding off of what we call Revinate Core. And Revinate Core is basically where, if you’re sitting on our customer data platform — you’re sitting on the CDP — our Core is the application where you can see all of your segments, all of your guests. This is where you basically build that data asset, and Pathways plugs right into that, like Revinate Marketing plugs right into that. So if you’re a Revinate Marketing customer, the transition from Revinate Marketing to Pathways is pretty easy because the data is already sitting in the background. So there’s no new integrations. Everything that you’ve already integrated just flows right through, which is cool.

[00:16:06] Dylan Cole: Yeah, and that’s where all the hard work that our amazing engineering team has been doing over the past few years, building out Core, building out the integration layers, building out all the things that our customers love today… So you have now marketing, CRM, CDP capabilities, and now Pathways will just contribute to that broader picture.

[00:16:27] Karen Stephens: Yeah, so I mentioned that I want to talk a little bit about Revinate Chat, which is also something that is coming out, launching, I think, in a couple weeks here. So Revinate Chat is how we carry on the conversation with the guest once they get on property. So this is a messaging platform. And so what I love about this — so this is the cool thing, Dylan — this is advanced AI, and the context that the AI is picking up is actually built off of the property data. So what do I mean by that? I mean brand voice, all of your images, your booking patterns. It can see everything that we know about the guest from their rich guest profile as well as everything we know about the hotel. So we won’t go too far into that on this podcast, but I just want to say, if you want to see AI in action really doing the lion’s share of the work to communicate with this guest, not in a generic way, but in a very contextually relevant way, Revinate Chat is going to be here, and it’s the wave of the future. Super cool.

[00:17:30] Dylan Cole: Yeah. And that’s like going back to my point before, and this is what I always share with people: we’ve worked extremely hard to build out over 300 integrations that we have today. We have an engine that cleans that data. Like, that is not easy work. But now you really start to see our company put into motion the application layers.

[00:17:49] Karen Stephens: That’s exactly right, Dylan. So if a hotelier listening takes one thing away from this podcast, what should it be?

[00:17:56] Dylan Cole: Okay, well, I think there’s two scenarios. Like, if you feel that you have a great grasp today of your guest data — you have it brought together, it’s in a clean format — then based on our conversation today, are you thinking about how that’s being activated? Is it being done in the best way possible? Are you truly providing experiences and journeys for guests based on what you know about them? Or do you have data that’s sitting there and it’s not being incorporated into those journeys because that’s a missed opportunity? If you aren’t quite there yet, and your guest data isn’t unified yet, you’re unable to recognize repeat guests, your data is dirty — that’s also a step in this journey, right? We talked about CRM, CDP, activation layer. There’s multiple steps to this, but kind of recognizing where you’re at in that journey and never stop building on it. There’s vast opportunities now with data and systems to be able to really step up your game and provide the best experience for your guests.

[00:18:56] Karen Stephens: I think that’s right. And our goal at Revinate is to help you simplify that journey. So if you’re an existing customer listening to this, please reach out to us if we can be of help with anything coming down the line, optimizing what you already have, moving into the next level. As Dylan said, it’s a journey, and, you know, it depends on where you are in that journey, but we’re here to help you. And if you’re new, please reach out. We’d be more than happy to talk about how you can consolidate all of those things into a single platform that’s really going to maximize the best asset you have at your hotel, which is your guest data.

[00:19:26] Dylan Cole: And congrats again on 200 episodes.

[00:19:30] Karen Stephens: Well, thanks, Dylan. Always great to see you.

[00:19:33] Dylan Cole: You too. Bye.

[00:19:38] Karen Stephens: Thank you for joining us on this episode of Hotel Moment by Revinate. Our community of hoteliers is growing every week, and each guest we speak to is tackling industry challenges with the innovation and flexibility that our industry demands. If you enjoyed today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review. And if you’re listening on YouTube, please like the video and subscribe for more content. For more information, head to revinate.com/hotelmomentpodcast. Until next time, keep innovating.

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